Talk:Narcissistic personality disorder

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Interesting new study suggests grandiose narcs are psychopaths and vulnerable narcs hide low self-esteem

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0191886921001550

Here is an extract of the discussion which disproves claims linking to grandioe type to psychopaths.

"Here, we show a strong correlation between FLEX - a component of PRISN - and narcissism. This correlation is surprising as it is born of insecurities and is not better explained by socially desirable behavior. It suggests that narcissism is better understood as a compensatory adaptation to overcome and cover up negative self-worth, instead of genuine grandiosity and grandeur. The overall pattern of our results supports this interpretation, as guilt is evoked differentially by moral dilemmas – individuals scoring high on measures of psychopathy exhibit low guilt whereas insecure individuals exhibit high guilt."

Article on Psychology Today concerning the study:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-mindful-self-express/202103/are-narcissists-actually-covering-insecurity

Psychology Today is pop psychology.

Why are we citing a reddit user?

Even though there is a news article that references it, it doesn't seem to fit WP: Identifying reliable sources (medicine). Yoshimatu (talk) 14:53, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Remove it then WP:BOLD LinuxNCats (talk) 20:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Types

The article is very confusing in the discussion of types. Grandiose and exhibitionist narcissists are the same. Closet, vulnerable, and covert subtypes all refer to "vulnerable" narcissists, which is the current term researchers use. What is missing, which I will add is the new subtype: Communal narcissist. Dalancer (talk) 17:02, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

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The DSMV-TR Dimensional approach

Please take note of the addition of a dimensional approach (section III) to the categorical approach (Section II) in the DSMV-TR below

https://www.mredscircleoftrust.com/storage/app/media/DSM%205%20TR.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leaving Neveland (talk • contribs) 12:17, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Role of shame and/or worthlessness in NPD needs to be clarified.

The role of self-esteem in NPD is highly contentious, but it's misleading to present NPD as being marked by feelings of worthlessness, self-loathing, or low self-esteem. It's diagnosed according to a set of symptoms which have nothing to do with these traits. The clinical definition should be emphasized above isolated studies and hypotheses, since these frequently contradict each other. 2603:7081:1603:A300:8448:8888:CC8F:BC90 (talk) 02:04, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for raising this point. I have clarified the bit which was flagged, but the Signs and Symptoms section does need to lead with the current diagnostic criteria. Contributions from a subject matter expert would be ideal. HussainHx (talk) 02:33, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

There is no contradiction. Hundreds, if not thousands of studies have explored and detailed the core role of shame, self-loathing, and worthlessness in all forms of NPD. It is a defining trait, so much so that it is referred to as causal for many of the more easily externally visible symptoms. The diagnostic criteria, for NPD and all conditions/disorders, are NOT meant to describe the disorder as a whole. Diagnostic criteria are simply a list of quantifiable traits which can be used to identify, but they are never meant to be used as a list of all signs and symptoms of a disorder.

Many disorders (including NPD) will have a signs and symptoms that are referred to as classification criteria, which help researchers identify and group populations for study. For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4482786/

TL;DR - The true known traits of a disorder are defined by peer-reviewed research, not by a diagnostic manual which is only meant to provide a subset of more easily identifiable symptoms to healthcare providers who are often less knowledgeable about the current research.

- Varixai 00:03, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Comparison with MPD is completely off

In the last topic of the history section, NPD is compared to BPD and MPD. The last paragraph discusses how NPD 'shares some commonality with the now discredited "multiple personality disorder" (MPD)...'. This discussion seems to be uncited and is also factually incorrect as MPD has not been discredited, it has been renamed Dissociative Identity Disorder, and DID is currently very popular on TikTok. I looked through the history of the article and it was added in this edit https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Narcissistic_personality_disorder&oldid=1116919357. The article cited backs up the point about narcissistic traits not necessarily being on the increase but from what I can see makes no discussion of any relation between NPD and MPD. I am not a frequent editor so I don't want to just remove an entire paragraph without discussing it but thought this should be discussed at least. Qwerty11235813 (talk) 12:09, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

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